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	<title>Comments on: At The Expense Of Democracy</title>
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		<title>By: Malc</title>
		<link>http://www.yellowswordfish.com/984/at-the-expense-of-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-55190</link>
		<dc:creator>Malc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yellowswordfish.com/?p=984#comment-55190</guid>
		<description>Jake, 
Completely agree with any idea to stop the zombie voters, but how about this, make it mandatory, but include a &#039;non of the above&#039; box, then reduce the MP&#039;s salary and expenses allowance by the percentage that voted &#039;non of the above&#039; ?
That way people who are angry with the lack of choice, can make their feelings know, once an area returned a high &#039;non of the above&#039; then the smaller parties would be encouraged to stand in these areas - and no, I don&#039;t think their listening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jake,<br />
Completely agree with any idea to stop the zombie voters, but how about this, make it mandatory, but include a &#8216;non of the above&#8217; box, then reduce the MP&#8217;s salary and expenses allowance by the percentage that voted &#8216;non of the above&#8217; ?<br />
That way people who are angry with the lack of choice, can make their feelings know, once an area returned a high &#8216;non of the above&#8217; then the smaller parties would be encouraged to stand in these areas &#8211; and no, I don&#8217;t think their listening.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.yellowswordfish.com/984/at-the-expense-of-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-55160</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 11:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yellowswordfish.com/?p=984#comment-55160</guid>
		<description>I definitely don&#039;t believe voting should be mandatory. I always vote myself, but then I also always consider all the parties available and check out the policies of the ones who aren&#039;t patently well outside my range of beliefs, and vote for the guys who best [at least pretend to] mirror my opinions.

If the guy down the street isn&#039;t going to do that and wants to just walk in and vote for Labour or Conservatives or whoever just because his parents always voted for Labour or his wife is a Conservative supporter or because the guy who came around to talk to him about the Lib Dems smelled a bit funny so obviously they&#039;re not a good party for parliament, or even just pick someone at random so he can at least say he voted... well, I&#039;d prefer those people stay away from the polls, if it&#039;s all the same to you.

(I&#039;ve always thought we might get better actual representation if the ballot was accompanied by a short multiple-choice question about the policies of each candidate, drawn up by the opposition and agreed by the candidate, so that people only get to vote if they actually know what they&#039;re voting for - and it might even change a few people&#039;s opinions of the parties they&#039;ve been supporting - but of course, that would never happen.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely don&#8217;t believe voting should be mandatory. I always vote myself, but then I also always consider all the parties available and check out the policies of the ones who aren&#8217;t patently well outside my range of beliefs, and vote for the guys who best [at least pretend to] mirror my opinions.</p>
<p>If the guy down the street isn&#8217;t going to do that and wants to just walk in and vote for Labour or Conservatives or whoever just because his parents always voted for Labour or his wife is a Conservative supporter or because the guy who came around to talk to him about the Lib Dems smelled a bit funny so obviously they&#8217;re not a good party for parliament, or even just pick someone at random so he can at least say he voted&#8230; well, I&#8217;d prefer those people stay away from the polls, if it&#8217;s all the same to you.</p>
<p>(I&#8217;ve always thought we might get better actual representation if the ballot was accompanied by a short multiple-choice question about the policies of each candidate, drawn up by the opposition and agreed by the candidate, so that people only get to vote if they actually know what they&#8217;re voting for &#8211; and it might even change a few people&#8217;s opinions of the parties they&#8217;ve been supporting &#8211; but of course, that would never happen.)</p>
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		<title>By: Malc</title>
		<link>http://www.yellowswordfish.com/984/at-the-expense-of-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-55145</link>
		<dc:creator>Malc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yellowswordfish.com/?p=984#comment-55145</guid>
		<description>I always vote, I believe that it should be mandatory, too many people have died to give me the right. But I do understand why people don&#039;t vote, they don&#039;t think it can make a difference, so the first past the post system should change and if it allows a few extremists in it is a good thing.

Take the BNP as an example, while ever they are ignored by the Political Elite and the Media, they grow, I&#039;m sure once we see them in power, their incompetence and real attitudes will shine through and they will be removed at the next election. But like smoking, or drinking or anything else the current government / BBC tell me not to do, it just increases it&#039;s appeal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always vote, I believe that it should be mandatory, too many people have died to give me the right. But I do understand why people don&#8217;t vote, they don&#8217;t think it can make a difference, so the first past the post system should change and if it allows a few extremists in it is a good thing.</p>
<p>Take the BNP as an example, while ever they are ignored by the Political Elite and the Media, they grow, I&#8217;m sure once we see them in power, their incompetence and real attitudes will shine through and they will be removed at the next election. But like smoking, or drinking or anything else the current government / BBC tell me not to do, it just increases it&#8217;s appeal.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy @ Yellow Swordfish</title>
		<link>http://www.yellowswordfish.com/984/at-the-expense-of-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-55133</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy @ Yellow Swordfish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 09:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yellowswordfish.com/?p=984#comment-55133</guid>
		<description>Jake and Malc:

I caught a brief snippet of debate on News 24 last night - sadly turned it on too late to hear it all. A couple of guys (don&#039;t have a clue who they were) appeared to be arguing that voting reform, especially PR, would allow extremist parties (such as the BNP) to get a foothold in parliament and therefore was a bad thing.

Someone made the admirable comment: &quot;Since when did democracy become conditional?&quot;.

I find the BNP distasteful but I find it more distasteful that the will of the electorate should be so disgracefully ignored when it doesn&#039;t fit into an incumbent governments notion of what is and is not acceptable. To ignore the people who vote for the BNP - or indeed UKIP or Green is alone enough to shatter any myth that we live in a democracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jake and Malc:</p>
<p>I caught a brief snippet of debate on News 24 last night &#8211; sadly turned it on too late to hear it all. A couple of guys (don&#8217;t have a clue who they were) appeared to be arguing that voting reform, especially PR, would allow extremist parties (such as the BNP) to get a foothold in parliament and therefore was a bad thing.</p>
<p>Someone made the admirable comment: &#8220;Since when did democracy become conditional?&#8221;.</p>
<p>I find the BNP distasteful but I find it more distasteful that the will of the electorate should be so disgracefully ignored when it doesn&#8217;t fit into an incumbent governments notion of what is and is not acceptable. To ignore the people who vote for the BNP &#8211; or indeed UKIP or Green is alone enough to shatter any myth that we live in a democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Malc</title>
		<link>http://www.yellowswordfish.com/984/at-the-expense-of-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-55128</link>
		<dc:creator>Malc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 23:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yellowswordfish.com/?p=984#comment-55128</guid>
		<description>Sorry Andy, having missed you and all that, I think there is a massive difference between them and us. For the record I have &#039;leaned on&#039; my expenses in the past. I had a job where the rule was &quot;eat on your own for X pounds, or have a business meal with customers for unlimited pounds&quot;. You can already see that close to lunch I would ring up a friendly customer and say&quot; what you doing for lunch?&quot; the reply &quot;nothing&quot; ok then I&#039;ll pick you up and take you down the pub and unlimited pounds later we left the pub.

THE DIFFERENCE ?

I DIDN&#039;T WRITE THE RULES, UNLIKE THE HONOURABLE MEMBERS, they decided just how deep and wide the trough was, and boy was it deep and wide, they stuck their snouts in and gorged their fat arses on us - angry ? - you bet you - vote Tory? - no chance, I don&#039;t care if I vote extreme left or right, but I&#039;m not going to vote Lib, Lab or Con.

Anyways, nice you&#039;re back !!!!

Oh yeah, and Jake, if the French laugh out just threaten to hit them, their hands will go up and they&#039;ll run away (don&#039;t do fighting the frogs !!!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Andy, having missed you and all that, I think there is a massive difference between them and us. For the record I have &#8216;leaned on&#8217; my expenses in the past. I had a job where the rule was &#8220;eat on your own for X pounds, or have a business meal with customers for unlimited pounds&#8221;. You can already see that close to lunch I would ring up a friendly customer and say&#8221; what you doing for lunch?&#8221; the reply &#8220;nothing&#8221; ok then I&#8217;ll pick you up and take you down the pub and unlimited pounds later we left the pub.</p>
<p>THE DIFFERENCE ?</p>
<p>I DIDN&#8217;T WRITE THE RULES, UNLIKE THE HONOURABLE MEMBERS, they decided just how deep and wide the trough was, and boy was it deep and wide, they stuck their snouts in and gorged their fat arses on us &#8211; angry ? &#8211; you bet you &#8211; vote Tory? &#8211; no chance, I don&#8217;t care if I vote extreme left or right, but I&#8217;m not going to vote Lib, Lab or Con.</p>
<p>Anyways, nice you&#8217;re back !!!!</p>
<p>Oh yeah, and Jake, if the French laugh out just threaten to hit them, their hands will go up and they&#8217;ll run away (don&#8217;t do fighting the frogs !!!)</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.yellowswordfish.com/984/at-the-expense-of-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-55127</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yellowswordfish.com/?p=984#comment-55127</guid>
		<description>The quote from Cameron that I heard was something along the lines of &quot;proportional representation is a bad idea because it produces weak, divided governments&quot; - I don&#039;t know about you, but a weak, divided government sounds pretty good to me after the last few years of a dominant government who could pass more or less any legislation they cared to until the House of Lords of all people decided to stand up for the common man and put a stop to the more egregious examples.

Still, it&#039;s kind of reassuring in a morbid way that Cameron isn&#039;t the twee naÃ¯ve idealist I almost mistook him for when his bike got nicked, realises that proper representation for the British people would mean his party wouldn&#039;t get the complete landslide they can realistically expect from the next election using first-past-the-post and is engaging in that fine tradition of five-year short-term thinking that has buoyed British politics since time immemorial.

(Brown, on the other hand, gave us something like &quot;PR is a bad idea because it removes the link from the MP to the constituent&quot;, which is a reasonable complaint in those three constituencies in the country where the MP actually pays the slightest bit of attention to the people who elected them - but still conveniently ignores the fact that there are plenty of systems which are a damn sight better than straight plurality voting and still elect a single candidate. Give us preference voting, it&#039;d be nice to be ruled by people considered an OK choice by more than 30% of the population once in a while. And it&#039;d be nice to not be laughed at so much by the French, for that matter.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The quote from Cameron that I heard was something along the lines of &#8220;proportional representation is a bad idea because it produces weak, divided governments&#8221; &#8211; I don&#8217;t know about you, but a weak, divided government sounds pretty good to me after the last few years of a dominant government who could pass more or less any legislation they cared to until the House of Lords of all people decided to stand up for the common man and put a stop to the more egregious examples.</p>
<p>Still, it&#8217;s kind of reassuring in a morbid way that Cameron isn&#8217;t the twee naÃ¯ve idealist I almost mistook him for when his bike got nicked, realises that proper representation for the British people would mean his party wouldn&#8217;t get the complete landslide they can realistically expect from the next election using first-past-the-post and is engaging in that fine tradition of five-year short-term thinking that has buoyed British politics since time immemorial.</p>
<p>(Brown, on the other hand, gave us something like &#8220;PR is a bad idea because it removes the link from the MP to the constituent&#8221;, which is a reasonable complaint in those three constituencies in the country where the MP actually pays the slightest bit of attention to the people who elected them &#8211; but still conveniently ignores the fact that there are plenty of systems which are a damn sight better than straight plurality voting and still elect a single candidate. Give us preference voting, it&#8217;d be nice to be ruled by people considered an OK choice by more than 30% of the population once in a while. And it&#8217;d be nice to not be laughed at so much by the French, for that matter.)</p>
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