Comments on: What The New Kid On The Block Needs To Get Right http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/ Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:15:11 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Marko http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/comment-page-1/#comment-34625 Marko Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:49:43 +0000 http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/#comment-34625 I like 'Habari' as the name. @Jake: What about Joomla? I like ‘Habari’ as the name.

@Jake: What about Joomla?

]]> By: Andy @ Yellow Swordfish http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/comment-page-1/#comment-12282 Andy @ Yellow Swordfish Thu, 04 Oct 2007 02:27:36 +0000 http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/#comment-12282 @Jeremy I don't really agree that WP has gone anywhere near addressing these issues to be honest. In particular, the best information on what is going on still seems to come from independent sources, documentation is still a haystack, installs and upgrades remain the same... Etc. Trawling the source code is still the recommended way of catching changes - or reading and deciphering the incomplete responses on Trac. Habari - still looks promising but I am waiting for the promised 0.3 release to try it again. @Jeremy
I don’t really agree that WP has gone anywhere near addressing these issues to be honest. In particular, the best information on what is going on still seems to come from independent sources, documentation is still a haystack, installs and upgrades remain the same… Etc.
Trawling the source code is still the recommended way of catching changes – or reading and deciphering the incomplete responses on Trac.
Habari – still looks promising but I am waiting for the promised 0.3 release to try it again.

]]> By: jeremy clarke http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/comment-page-1/#comment-12281 jeremy clarke Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:24:20 +0000 http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/#comment-12281 Just passing through on plugin business and thought i'd check this post out. Looking at the new WP release, it seems like the kids at Automattic listened to your advice (even if they didn't hear it) in a lot of ways, most of your points have been adressed on some level. Did you end up trying Habari yet? Just passing through on plugin business and thought i’d check this post out. Looking at the new WP release, it seems like the kids at Automattic listened to your advice (even if they didn’t hear it) in a lot of ways, most of your points have been adressed on some level.

Did you end up trying Habari yet?

]]> By: moeffju.net » Habari http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/comment-page-1/#comment-5576 moeffju.net » Habari Wed, 10 Jan 2007 04:41:31 +0000 http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/#comment-5576 [...] The thing about Habari is that is starts from scratch, and today. That means it doesn’t have to worry about a lot of existing legacy code and thus, downward compatibility. It is also being designed from the grounds up, using the latest available technology. Heck, it’s full OOP! It abstracts database access! You can plug in different theme engines (and, of course, there are plugins). In short, it could easily be the greatest thing since pressed words. [...] [...] The thing about Habari is that is starts from scratch, and today. That means it doesn’t have to worry about a lot of existing legacy code and thus, downward compatibility. It is also being designed from the grounds up, using the latest available technology. Heck, it’s full OOP! It abstracts database access! You can plug in different theme engines (and, of course, there are plugins). In short, it could easily be the greatest thing since pressed words. [...]

]]> By: Jake http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/comment-page-1/#comment-5573 Jake Wed, 10 Jan 2007 02:44:47 +0000 http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/#comment-5573 Ubuntu is a bit of a disingenuous - or perhaps just naïve - example, though. 'Linux' also doesn't mean anything inherently, although I guess the shape of the word might clue in Unix geeks. What's the competition? 'Debian'? 'Gentoo'? 'Red Hat'? Which of those says "stable and secure unix-like open-source operating system" less than 'Ubuntu'? (As it goes, I know at least one guy who refuses to even try Ubuntu because he thinks it's got trendy due to people wanting to "demonstrate solidarity with Africa" and doesn't want people to jump to conclusions over his choice of OS...) More to the point, though, for all the Slashdot crowd talk about 2005, no, 2006, no wait, 2007 being the year of the Linux Desktop, Linux is still used mostly by geeks and technical people, who are far more accepting of meaningless or oblique names than everyone else. It's <i>expected</i>, almost, in the world of OSS, with it's high-profile banner-bearers with names like 'Apache' and silly recursive acronyms. I'm pretty sure that weblog software, on the other hand, is far more commonly looked for and set up by less-geeky and likely less-technical people than those who are after Linux distros. Now, sure, 'weird' names can become perfectly acceptable to the man on the street - everyone knows 'Google', which wasn't a word before 1999 or so, and 'Wiki' apparently made the jump from Hawaiian to commonplace English usage, so it's not impossible - it's just really really hard. I'm pretty sure 'wiki' in particular entered public understanding more as a result of media coverage of Wikipedia than because people were looking for collaborative documentation systems and actually looked for functionality rather than a likely-sounding name. Good luck to you guys - I share Andy's enthusiasm for the project, both 'cause it's always good to have more choices and because I'm only just starting to look at WordPress and already finding stuff which makes it <i>not totally ideal</i> for me, and I certainly look forward to seeing releases. I'm just wary - I'm moving to WordPress from a platform I wrote myself specifically because it's popular and thus more likely to continue to be supported and developed, and likely to attract helpful plugin authors to do work I'd rather not spend time on. I'm lazy, you see. I worry that without the kind of popularity that projects like WordPress or Firefox enjoy, things like Habari might never get the community support they quite probably deserve. Also, I keep spelling it wrong 'cause I don't speak Swahili. Ubuntu is a bit of a disingenuous – or perhaps just naïve – example, though. ‘Linux’ also doesn’t mean anything inherently, although I guess the shape of the word might clue in Unix geeks. What’s the competition? ‘Debian’? ‘Gentoo’? ‘Red Hat’? Which of those says “stable and secure unix-like open-source operating system” less than ‘Ubuntu’?

(As it goes, I know at least one guy who refuses to even try Ubuntu because he thinks it’s got trendy due to people wanting to “demonstrate solidarity with Africa” and doesn’t want people to jump to conclusions over his choice of OS…)

More to the point, though, for all the Slashdot crowd talk about 2005, no, 2006, no wait, 2007 being the year of the Linux Desktop, Linux is still used mostly by geeks and technical people, who are far more accepting of meaningless or oblique names than everyone else. It’s expected, almost, in the world of OSS, with it’s high-profile banner-bearers with names like ‘Apache’ and silly recursive acronyms. I’m pretty sure that weblog software, on the other hand, is far more commonly looked for and set up by less-geeky and likely less-technical people than those who are after Linux distros.

Now, sure, ‘weird’ names can become perfectly acceptable to the man on the street – everyone knows ‘Google’, which wasn’t a word before 1999 or so, and ‘Wiki’ apparently made the jump from Hawaiian to commonplace English usage, so it’s not impossible – it’s just really really hard. I’m pretty sure ‘wiki’ in particular entered public understanding more as a result of media coverage of Wikipedia than because people were looking for collaborative documentation systems and actually looked for functionality rather than a likely-sounding name.

Good luck to you guys – I share Andy’s enthusiasm for the project, both ’cause it’s always good to have more choices and because I’m only just starting to look at WordPress and already finding stuff which makes it not totally ideal for me, and I certainly look forward to seeing releases. I’m just wary – I’m moving to WordPress from a platform I wrote myself specifically because it’s popular and thus more likely to continue to be supported and developed, and likely to attract helpful plugin authors to do work I’d rather not spend time on. I’m lazy, you see. I worry that without the kind of popularity that projects like WordPress or Firefox enjoy, things like Habari might never get the community support they quite probably deserve.

Also, I keep spelling it wrong ’cause I don’t speak Swahili.

]]> By: faustina http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/comment-page-1/#comment-5563 faustina Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:56:21 +0000 http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/#comment-5563 I totally agree with you on the points that wordpress misses. I really love wordpress, but was surprised with it's downfalls right away, these seem like things they should have gotten right. My #1 is the featured themes and plugins. Some of those themes are horribly coded (as you have helped me with) and aren't compliant. I really feel for the people who don't have anyone to help them with their issues. I honestly don't think I would have known how to get through a update or many of the settings without your advice. I don't know how other people find the answers to get it all right. I hope someone with wp, or habari sees these things and realizes how important they are. I totally agree with you on the points that wordpress misses. I really love wordpress, but was surprised with it’s downfalls right away, these seem like things they should have gotten right. My #1 is the featured themes and plugins. Some of those themes are horribly coded (as you have helped me with) and aren’t compliant. I really feel for the people who don’t have anyone to help them with their issues. I honestly don’t think I would have known how to get through a update or many of the settings without your advice. I don’t know how other people find the answers to get it all right. I hope someone with wp, or habari sees these things and realizes how important they are.

]]> By: khaled http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/comment-page-1/#comment-5559 khaled Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:58:27 +0000 http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/#comment-5559 Because Ubuntu really didn't work out for them? It's obviously an important issue, but it's about what's behind the name and how it's portrayed and used. It'll grow on you. Because Ubuntu really didn’t work out for them? It’s obviously an important issue, but it’s about what’s behind the name and how it’s portrayed and used. It’ll grow on you.

]]> By: Andy @ Yellow Swordfish http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/comment-page-1/#comment-5557 Andy @ Yellow Swordfish Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:55:59 +0000 http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/#comment-5557 Not a bad comment. And I'd accept the contention that an English name becomes almost universal. I rather think they plan to stick with the name though - so maybe it wil just be accetable in non-English speaking lands... Not a bad comment. And I’d accept the contention that an English name becomes almost universal. I rather think they plan to stick with the name though – so maybe it wil just be accetable in non-English speaking lands…

]]> By: skippy dot net » Spread the news http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/comment-page-1/#comment-5556 skippy dot net » Spread the news Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:52:59 +0000 http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/#comment-5556 [...] We've been working on Habari since October, 2006. I'm tickled that many of the suggestions on "What the new kid on the block needs to get right" had been discussed long before we ever announced the project. With the influx of interest and enthusiasm, there's been a lot of attention on the installation process. Hopefully we can dedicate as much energy to the upgrade process as well. [...] [...] We've been working on Habari since October, 2006. I'm tickled that many of the suggestions on "What the new kid on the block needs to get right" had been discussed long before we ever announced the project. With the influx of interest and enthusiasm, there's been a lot of attention on the installation process. Hopefully we can dedicate as much energy to the upgrade process as well. [...]

]]> By: Jake http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/comment-page-1/#comment-5554 Jake Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:43:40 +0000 http://www.yellowswordfish.com/509/what-the-new-kid-on-the-block-needs-to-get-right/#comment-5554 Frankly, from what I've seen so far, I'm kind of skeptical. Not because of any flaw in the software, since I've only seen the front end and have no idea how it's put together; not because of the people involved, 'cause I barely know any of them by face or deed and couldn't criticise them for what I do know; really, my concern is more one of marketing. To put it simply, 'Habari' is a very silly name. 'WordPress', on the other hand, is a very <i>good</i> name. It's descriptive, it sounds powerful and enabling, and it's in English, which is still a majority language in terms of understanding - unlike Swahili, which is conversely commonly used in sitcoms as an example of one of those languages that <i>nobody knows</i>. In my experience, non-English names scare and/or confuse a lot of people, not to mention make it hard for people to discover the software in the first place. If I'm some newbie who's looking for weblog software 'WordPress' or 'Movable Type' sound a lot more like the kind of thing I want than something like 'Habari'. That could mean anything! It could be an image manipulation tool, a game programming API, a database, a foodstuff or some weird genre of fetish porn I've never heard of. Giving things names that don't mean anything - or mean something kitschy in a different language - is very <i>geek chic</i> and all, but it turns normal people off instantly. Hell, I kind of suspect that half of MySQL's dominance over PostgreSQL is down to people thinking 'PostrgeSQL' sounds scary. And not knowing how to pronounce it. Hey, maybe that's what they're trying to do, I don't know. Maybe 'Habari' is just a development name and they intend to change it to something more germane later, but I'd worry that such names tend to stick and you lose a lot of your good press when you change your identity... Frankly, from what I’ve seen so far, I’m kind of skeptical.

Not because of any flaw in the software, since I’ve only seen the front end and have no idea how it’s put together; not because of the people involved, ’cause I barely know any of them by face or deed and couldn’t criticise them for what I do know; really, my concern is more one of marketing.

To put it simply, ‘Habari’ is a very silly name. ‘WordPress’, on the other hand, is a very good name. It’s descriptive, it sounds powerful and enabling, and it’s in English, which is still a majority language in terms of understanding – unlike Swahili, which is conversely commonly used in sitcoms as an example of one of those languages that nobody knows.

In my experience, non-English names scare and/or confuse a lot of people, not to mention make it hard for people to discover the software in the first place. If I’m some newbie who’s looking for weblog software ‘WordPress’ or ‘Movable Type’ sound a lot more like the kind of thing I want than something like ‘Habari’. That could mean anything! It could be an image manipulation tool, a game programming API, a database, a foodstuff or some weird genre of fetish porn I’ve never heard of. Giving things names that don’t mean anything – or mean something kitschy in a different language – is very geek chic and all, but it turns normal people off instantly. Hell, I kind of suspect that half of MySQL’s dominance over PostgreSQL is down to people thinking ‘PostrgeSQL’ sounds scary. And not knowing how to pronounce it.

Hey, maybe that’s what they’re trying to do, I don’t know. Maybe ‘Habari’ is just a development name and they intend to change it to something more germane later, but I’d worry that such names tend to stick and you lose a lot of your good press when you change your identity…

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